Elections

[Walter and Theodor]

Just to add, the two thirds probably controls for outside subversion but the need for one UN member potentially provides another preventative for unecessary or counterproductive election calls. Its obviously not rock solid but perhaps in simply appearing to be another obstacle it serves a purpose. If we can have snap elections rather than scheduled ones maybe there should simply be an intermitting week between the call and the discussion/vote which itself should only last one week? It seems we need to keep the process short and sweet for those contexts where it might be constant due to some serious dispute.

Also, I think the 2/3rds majority is a good compromise between simple majority and consensus. I would hope that we would create a climate that angled towards consensus and even achieved it.

As for the votes in the UN I am assuming that in the end that is up to UN members but I think non-UN members should contribute to the discussions and try to sway votes if they feel its useful. I am still open to more discussion on that though - I just can't think of a compromise that doesn't smack of 3/5ths a person.

[theyellowspot]

Walter said:

The two thirds majority needed to establish a delegate is 2/3 of those registering an opinion in this forum. ---(we need to establish a time frame for the election then - is one week too little?)

i like the idea of having an election called for a week ahead, seems like enough time to discuss things, figure out where we stand and all. 2/3 of those registering is good too, though i think we should put forth effort into bringing tACA members in who aren't regular posters to the forum.

[Walter and Theodor]

Yellow Spot

I agree. It sounds like we are now a combined power bloc of significant influence on the elections issue (heh heh).

OK, does silence equal consent around here?

The scribes collective of W&T will write this proposal up in slightly more dazzling constitutional language in the coming weeks as time permits. If anyone would like to add something before that discussion moves forward please feel free to throw in now. Perhaps Yellow Spot and W&T can consider your objections and provide a solution?

Onward!

[claptonpond]

Walter said:

OK, does silence equal consent around here?

Mine does, at least provisionally.

I look forward to reading your fancy constitutional-type proposal (and maybe tearing it to shreds ).

[allers]

i'm a little late here but i thought loes had a good point.
shifting responsability on a regular basis woud be best i think everybody as the right to,and not the least it would mean you have to deep yourself in all matters concerning the region and your getting then a sort of decision conciousness...it doesn't take "the mean to debate" away and listen to each other to take a decision...this can only be positive

[Walter and Theodor]

The collectives of Walter and Theodor have convened a meeting in Port Bou. They have decided on a series of heuristic experiments to decide the political future of the country. The first experiment is as follows:


The Theocracy of Walter and Theodor formally requests the UN delegacy of the tACA. We would like to thank the founder and acting UN delegate Workers Communes for their outstanding work but we believe that Workers Communes is overburdened with the administration of the region. We ask that the anarchists of the tACA simply endorse us without any hesitation so that we might take up this role.


Thank you,
Martin Arendt
Techne Faction
The Theocracy of Walter and Theodor

[workerscommunes]

Taken from the regional message board:

"After much consideration, the Anarchist Federation of Workers Communes has decided to withdraw its endorsement for the Theocracy of Walter and Theodor for the following reasons:

1) Their method of choosing which way to vote on a resolution is based on whether they agree with the wording of the act rather than the effect the act would have on UN members (which I believe to be the more important factor). As a result I have on occassion disagreed with W&T over certain resolutions and am not confident they would represent my interests in the UN (recent resolutions W&T supported led to significant falls in my and other nations' civil rights, as we all knew they would).

2) I have ideological disagreements with W&T in certain areas. They have stated in the regional forum that they no longer believe in the potential of anarchism and are moving ideologically towards a more statist form of socialism. This view is perfectly fine but it is not my own and neither do I think it is representative of the views of most Anarcho Communist Alliance members."

WC.

[Tovah]

I want nothing to do with the UN or electing a regional delegate.

[Walter and Theodor]

Walter and Theodor respects the decision of the Workers Communes to both withdraw their endorsement and to criticize our advocacy of certain resolutions. We would simply like to make it clear that Walter and Theodor has never proposed to reject democracy and is committed to representing the region as a region. We do not seek the delegacy for the purpose of proffering our own views and opinions. Our contribution to UN debates would be as a voting nation in the region not as some kind of leader with nominal authority.

Thank you.

[Sacco & Vanzetti]

The People's Commonwealth of Sacco & Vanzetti supports Walter & Theodor's application for the UN delegacy and urges all members to give them their endorsement.

I have two comments, one I believe is a clarification of WC's point on the regional NS forum and one a clarification of S&V's support for W&T's delegacy.

Firstly, W&T have not renounced anarchism but have begun a public debate which questions whether, given the current state of the world, anarchism is a valid option. I believe W&T's argument is flawed and have engaged in the debate. Surely we are capable of debate?

Secondly, and, I believe, not entirely dissociated from the first point, isn't anarchism partly about always questioning? Isn't it about waking up in the morning and trying something new? Isn't it about constant revolution? Constant vigilance? And the ability to effect change without destroying the structure because the structure is about the ability to seek change? I therefore urge members to consider seriously endorsing W&T. There is no evidence that the delegacy would be abused but there is an opportunity for us to experiment with change.

[theyellowspot]

The Yellow Spot would only endorse W&T for the position of UN delegate in the case that as a region we decided what that entailed. We are steadfast in the notion that a UN Delegate should be tied to voting on an issue with the wishes of 2/3 of nations voting, and upon the request of 3 nations would be subject to immediate recall. We agree that electing a new delegate without having fleshed out how our elections would work and how the position of delegate would work is very hasty.

[Fenria]

I totally support Walter and Theodor in this election, it's all good baby! ^^ Lets go have a beer!

[zigtag]

I don't have the time to get into these debates with you unfortunately , but i do read with interest. This i would like to say though.
There doesn't seem to be much of a movement towards elections as proposed by those that wished it to be so , and W&T seems to have acknowledged the fact by choosing to follow what Michelaccio stated , that the simplest and most effective way of selecting a delegate is through the endorsement process , not through elections.
How can you get a 2/3rds majority when only a handful at best of the 19 UN nations currently in the region haven't even voiced an opinion ? Does that mean they don't care about elections ?
Good luck W&T in your election push. Maybe you could put forward some suggestions as to why nations should endorse you over other nations ?
WC is doing a fine job in my opinion and i'm interested in knowing how you could improve on this , and as to why you haven't proposed these improvements so they could be implemented before now.

[Anarchic Tribes]

What is all this about? Sorry but I missed some of this and I'm not entirely sure what's going on.
We have a UN delegate already. Why is W&T wanting the postion?
Does WC not want to be the delegate anymore?
Is it that W&T would like to have a go?
Has this issue been discussed between WC and W&T?
I'm happy with WC as delegate, if not I could have said something. If I wanted to be the delegate, likewise.

Walter and Theodor, or Workers Communes,
could you explain please?

[workerscommunes]

I would be perfectly happy to remain as delegate if that is what everyone wants. Likewise I would be happy to swap with W&T (or anyone else for that matter) if they recieve enough endorsements. I personaly will not be endorsing W&T for the reasons I have listed above.

Incidently W&T, what prompted you to suddenly 'ask' for the UN delegateship "without hesitation"? It just seemed rather odd and out-of-the-blue, especially as you gave no explanation as to why you so desired the position.